project: apparatus fo-do.

[4agshoob]

first, i have to write a "forward" for everyone to understand my angle, or approach in this, because the few people ive discussed this with, half have said "well it would just be easier to purchase "x" chassis and go from there." my problem is that "x" chassis and "y" chassis both are typically like opinions and ass holes, everyones got one.

now, like ive mentioned, i currently dont own an ae86, after having 4 of them, all modified, all fun, all home built.....its just time for something a little different. when your buddy calls you from 1500 miles away with a wiring issue, and you can run him thru wiring in a swap over the phone, color for color, while navigating rush hour traffic, and never miss a beat, while narrowly avoiding a few accidents.....its time to realize that , that particular chassis no longer offers you the challenge that you once loved in this hobby.

Am i saying im too good for the ae86 chassis, or 4ag now....f-bomb no. its my true love in the car world, so easy, so capable, so strong, yet.....so familiar. am i selling out to "x" brand.....f-bomb no. toyota for life, always. a little side note fact brought up to me by one of my very admired bosses, that in fact raised an epiphony in my mind.... "a toyota will never leave you on the side of the road." holy shit, hes absolutely right!!! it may leave you in your driveway, it may leave you in a parking lot, or at work. but never on the side of the interstate or roadway.....or maybe its the mindset of a toyota owner. this epiphony re-registered in my head, when i was driving the ls400 back from FL picking up my kids from the ex. battery light came on almost 170 miles from home....i managed to make it all the way to 88 miles from home before i decided to pull off and call it quits. voltage regulator on the alternator was sending 18v through out the system, then alternator just killed over. but did the car die on me on the exit ramp? no. did it die on me at the light? no. did it die on me when i pulled into the parking lot? no. but almost. am i gonna build a 3k lbs. ls400 drift car? no.

same thing back in 2009. my gze swapped ae100, first day at a job, i woke up late, and then covered 17 miles in 9 minutes. yeah....do the math. anyway, i made it, the car made it, but when i came out to go home...nothing. towed home, compression test, the most i had was 40 lbs. on #1 cylinder, the rest were giving me like 10 or less. but did it fail and leave me on the side of the road? no. 2010, i blew a major HG on my coupe when it had the 16v bigport. managed to drive it 7 miles home, with the door open and me litterally standing out of the door so i could see, but it made it, all the way home.

2 nights ago, my friend post pics on FB of his ap2 s2k getting loaded onto a tow truck from the middle of the roadway because his f22c locked down on him.....

3 months ago, i sold my bagged 91 blazer 2 door to a good friend. the next day, he calls me from the side of the interstate, where the 4.3l had rung the flywheel/flexplate slap off the truck.

toyotas just simply doesnt have these problems.

okay, enough of that, moving on.

[4agshoob]

so, with the ae86's getting harder and harder to find in a decent quality, for a decent price, ive decided to move in a different direction. a once well respected friend (till he said this) says, "dude, get an s13, dumb easy, dumb cheap, and drift the shit out of it......." yeah, but i look around at events and all i see is s13, s14, and the likes, sliding....everywhere. why? well of course the same thing he mentioned......but am i that guy? no.

so i looked towards trucks, i have mini trucker roots, but at the same time, here in ATL, theres 3 trucks on the drift circuit. a Datsun 560 king cab with sr20det, s13 rear subframe, etc. a toyota tacoma running a turbo 1uz..... and a hardbody truck running a KA-t. nope, not gonna be a nut swinger......

f-bodies?...not a chance, i dont have the right texture hair to grow a mullet anyway.

300zx? nope, ever seen one slide? looks like they have to lay on their door before the tires beg for mercy and they even start drifting.

rx-7....hmmmm. ive found in my ventures that the SA body style should have had a 302 ci from the factory, the chevy LS1 is at home in the fc and fd, and rotaries are cool in everything.......... but an rx-7.

miata? at 6'3" 260 lbs. .....not a chance.

ahhh, bimmers!! i am of german decent, they look really cool and sound amazing sliding. e30's...again opinions and assholes. e36, pockets aint got it like that.

cressida? again an early reminder of an ls400, and lets not go into 2j pricing, or 7m HG issues.

so honestly, whats left out there for me?

[GamblerZ]

What about this...


Chopped Ford Econoline Van

Or, this...

Holden Maloo

[ga_goosh]

to tell you the truth the e36 are becomming very fair priced excluding the ms (the owners think they are made of gold) the only thing would be replacement parts and performance parts are still pricy. have you thought about a poniac gto? the newer ones with the 5.7 or 6.0 thise have always caught my eye and they really arnt a pontiac. they are really a vauxhaul (hope i spelled that right lol) with a ls engine.

[GamblerZ]

And, then there is the Trailblazer SS...

[4agshoob]

come on guys...... really? if i cant pocket an e36....everyone of those are out.

i left the cliff hanger on purpose, ive got a candidate, toyota powered, toyota bodied, light, un-typical, yet beastly, and easily turn key, under $3500.

[GamblerZ]

MkIII

[4agshoob]

okay, while im not spoiling it yet, i will talk about my rear subframe choices.....

i will start off by saying that the oem rear track width of my project is 1460mm roughly translated, thats 57.5"

so in my searches for a rear subframe, im wanting to stay in this general vincinity.

so far ive found:

s13-1461mm/ 57.5"
e30-1415mm/ 56"


now, while a wider track is better, this will be a 4-door, so caressing the rear arches to fit a wheel and tire combo, might not be so easy. so if any of you guys have any other suggestions, that are cheap, easily mounted, and are withen this range, shoot them on here.

with the above rear-ends, each have their pro's and cons.

s13-
while the s13 rear end has a slew of aftermarket support, it is independent rear suspension, and like all the rear ends listed its a complete subframe, that can be made to fit almost anything, with simple 4-point mounting. Then you have to look at the trickery involved with s13 rear setups....you have the imfamous j30, q45 and z32 diff swaps, then other little tricks.






pros:
-at 1461mm , it has the closest track to my oem shell's track.
-stock 4:08 gear ratio
-4x114.3 lug pattern is easily converted to a 5x114.3 pattern
-rear disc brakes (r200)
-geometry adjustability.
-2001 xterra 4x4 front diff 4.63 R&P is a cheap, easy swap.

cons:

-weird rear strut mounting
-pesky axle angles when lowered
-heavy


e30-
very cheaply aquired. a lower track width will allow me to run crazy wide wheels in the rear, with a stretched look, and almost look as if its tubbed out. very simple geometry, a slew of aftermarket support as well, and like the others, is an entire subframe for ease of installment.





pros:
-independent single trailing arms
-rear disc brakes
-cooling fins on the diff cover
-3 point mounting
-4x100 lug pattern
-light

cons:
-weird spring perch to be made on shell's body
-no geometry adjustability
-shock mounts to be fabricated
-with the narrow 1415 track, will the brake assemblys clear the inner wheel well on the shell?

[4agshoob]

MkIII

too heavy, again infamous HG issues.

[dr.occa]

This


Do it!

[GamblerZ]

I am now thinking it is some sort of wagon.

[4agshoob]

if i can find this particular body style in a wagon, then sure. they are few and far between, but are pig heavy in that trim. the sedan trim is 2200 lbs, oem curb weight. but yes the wagons are very gangster when modified.

[4agshoob]

i'm finding another simple rear subframe, that im kinda digging. its a very proven sport setup too.....

the NA miata rear end. though not quite as narrow as the e30 rearend, its also a double wishbone setup, vs. the e30's lower trailing arm design, it also instead of the e30's weird spring perch and shock mount, the NA rear subframe uses a strut design.....




pros:
-IDRS
-aftermarket support
-rear disk
-4:30 r&p
-simple 4 point mounting


cons:

(crickets......)

[GamblerZ]

Question. Is this a purpose-built drift car, or will this also serve as a daily driver?

[4agshoob]

purpose built "toy". most of its glory will be sideways, but im a well rounded kinda guy, meaning it might see some sprited drivig as well. as far as daily, i guess ill be drivig it too and from events, local meets, the Walter Mitty, etc.

why you ask?

im that guy that rolls up at the events early, while everyones unloading their cars off of trailers, im getting teched already, and i get in a few practice laps before the first run group. then at the end of the day, when guys are loading their cars up, and what not, im either chilling and having conversations, or rolling out.

ie: i dont build trailered machines. not one of my cars have seen a trailer since it was brought home (if it was bought not driving). saying this, i mean. i wont go to an event and compete if i know i have an ill part that might shit on me. and i know the inevitable happens, but again, i relate back to that toyota reliability thing. but then i get the critics that tell me i "over-build" the car for such light use......at the end of the day, who drove their car there, ranked higher than you, and is now driving that car home? (might i add 80 mile trips).

with that being said, i always keep a small tool kit in the trunk of all my cars that consist of a 10mm, 12mm, 14mm, 17mm, 18mm and 19mm stubby wrenches, gear wreches, 3/8 extendable flexhead ratchet, and above sized sockets, prybar,hammer, phillips head and flat head screw drivers, channel locks, coal chisel, torque wrench, wire strippers, test lite and multimeter. ive yet to have a toyota throw somethig at me, i cant fix on spot ad get rolling, including diffs.

as for overbuilding i mean this....i didnt push my gze swapped ae86 any harder than the 16v guys do, i dot bag off the rev limiter, and do multiple clutch kicks just to put on a show with smoke and etc. reason for this...i started in a 20v blacktop swapped zenki coupe....it had trd springs, tokico blues, stock lsd, and an sr5 t50 (yes there is a difference). i found it hard to start in an already modded car, and didnt realize this till it was too late. when i bought my sliver coupe it was stock, and when i test drove it, i had zero issues breaking it loose and actually drove it better than i did my modified coupe. in turn the reason i bought my silver coupe is because my 20v coupe started having small issues.

with the 20v being so torquless compared to the stock 16v or the gze (which i was already spoiled on from my fwd gze ae100) i found that i was litterally beating the shit out of the drivetrain to get and keep the car sideways. this resulted in a de-funked, multi pieced zenki rearend, and 4 puck unsprung hub clutch to be ripped in half, and other issues such as 4 link bushings being wore out.

so to remedy this, i reffered back to my roots of the gze. torque on tap, no need to clutch kick, and rev drop to get the rears spinning. add that to 14psi, cammed, fmic, small piping, large throttle body, with a 6 puck sprung hub clutch, cusco 2 way, 13" wheels and 4:77 gear, according to the dyno i was putting down hp to tq ratios like a diesel, which resulted in so much less wear on the drivetrain. had id done that on the 20v, things might have been different, but with the lack of torque, i still would have been sending loads of shock thru the drivetrain having to rev the 20v so high to produce torque. with the gze all i had to do to get the rears spinning or transfer weight to slide was blip the throttle, no clutch kick needed. hell just shifting to second and flooring it with the weight transfered to either side, you better be quick at the wheel, because its already sideways.....but people seen the build at the evets and didnt understand why i wasnt pushing the car too its absolute limits as far as rev limiter, kicking the clutch to induce as much smoke as possible, etc. and id refer back to my previous statements...."aint no trailer queen" im not sponsored, i dont have a shop, hell i dont even own air tools.

so in this build, ill be applying the same principles. thats why i like the s13 rear end coupled to the 4ag, theres nothing that a 4agze mildly built can throw at an r200 that would endanger it. but at the same time, im looking for simplicity, and well it looks like the miata rear end offers it more than the s13 rear end does.

as i unfold this build thread, alot of my ramblings will make sense.